14c28n steel vs d2
AEB-L is a non-powder steel produced by Swedish steelmaker Uddeholm. Some of these steels also have vanadium (CruForgeV) or tungsten (Blue Super, V-Toku2, 1.2519) for increased wear resistance. So we get back to my original question: if a D2 planer blade at 58 Rc and the associated level of toughness will perform acceptably with a 30 sharpening angle, is there some way to extrapolate at what sharpening angle another steel with higher toughness might perform equally well? The greatest living knifemaker and one of the greatest knifemakers of all time, Michael Walker, calls AEB-L one of his favorite steels. This is the basis on which I do the ratings rather than a linear scale. If you have a favorite steel, rock on! D2 at 58 hard will cut much more rope than AEB-L at 62. I know it's much more stainless and corrosion resisitance, but what about wear resistance? In my experience, it will tarnish and discolor quickly. This is a very important factor when selecting a steel for your knife blade, especially if you plan on spending a lot of time outdoors in an area with high humidity.. S30v is a higher ranked steel and considered a true Stainless Steel, with a 14% . CPM-REX 121 and Maxamet are both in this category. ApexUltra is a steel that we are working on that had excellent properties in small batch production (50 lbs). Instead, Vargo titanium uses a unique material called sintered titanium-ceramic alloy. A lot of custom makers also like S110V, including the great RJ Martin. Vanadium carbides are very large with conventional production of steels but are very small with powder metallurgy. 14C28N is stainless steel, and its knives offer excellent rust resistance and toughness than D2 steel. I have a (relatively) short introduction before getting into the ratings with a few important things to put them into context. That comes with an excellent return of experience that makes it ideal for the manufacturer of outdoor and tactical knife blades. If you need something that soaks up abuse, try 3V. HAP40 While not a powder steel, 154CM is widely used in nicer knives. and our It was originally developed for use as ball-bearing steel by NASA. I am particularly interested in researching knife steel, knife properties, and brands. Therefore powder metallurgy is not necessary for certain steels, or could even be slightly detrimental. Non-stainless steels can be heat treated to 66 Rc or even higher depending on the particular steel. Some steel companies charge more than others. Im a woodworker and Im interested in making better performing plane irons and chisels. 2. Compared to the AUS10A, the D2 has a longer legacy since it's been around since 1918. In some previous articles I have shown the balance between my toughness and edge retention measurements such as in the following chart, where the high alloy non-stainless are in orange and the blue are stainless: However, one issue with these charts are that difference in toughness is that a linear scale for toughness is a bit misleading for visualizing practical toughness differences. 420HC, 420, and 5160 all offer off-the-charts toughness. Obviously Ill let you check the manuscript prior to publication. Also, if you want a fishing knife, 14c28n steel will survive better in wet areas than D2. What carbon/tool steel would you choose for a survival knife if a PM steel was too expensive? However, it can be somewhat complicated because an edge can dull from many causes wear, micro-chipping, deformation, or corrosion. D2 has a relatively high amount of carbon in its composition (1.55%), more than twice as much as AEB-L (0.68%), but most of that carbon goes into making chromium carbides instead of into solution in the steel matrix, leaving D2 with only ~0.5% C in solution and very large carbides that are good for wear resistance but bad for toughness. The unique process used to make LC 200N results in a fine-grain structure. A good quality knife must have sharpness, great edge retention, and a sturdy handle. Choose a factor below to start sorting. Here, read on for an in-depth look at common knife steels as well as the best knife steels around. Steel high in carbides cant be stamped out; it must be cut by a waterjet or laser, which takes time and is more expensive. This grade can be treated cryogenically to improve edge retention. 7:00am-5:00pm, 10am-7pm Tuesday - Friday For example, D2 has enough chromium to be stainless (~12%) but its high carbon means that too much chromium carbide is formed to leave enough chromium for stainless levels of corrosion resistance. This is a virtually stain-proof steel suitable for all sorts of aquatic environments. I was guessing 5.5 based on your rating of CPM-154. Why wouldnt it be possible to make a damascus steel out of (say) AEB-L and s90V, or wouldnt that gain the best of both? Yes its very easy to sharpen but it doesnt hold an edge at all. Hit like and all t. This isnt exactly how steel works; different properties are difficult to increase without affecting something else. Lets talk about the clip-on pocket knife. This is a midprice steel with matching performance. Fine-carbide knife steels. But then if you look at an increase of 100 mm in the CATRA test from Maxamet to Rex 121 the toughness only drops 1-2 ft-lbs. Is this at the same hardness? If youre having trouble finding the steel you want, see if another manufacturer makes something much like it. And Ive done a lot of experimental work on knife steels where I feel more confident in my own ratings. n690 But the true calling card of INFI is its insane toughness. Therefore, you cannot purchase the knife for use in corrosive environments. D2 steel offers better edge retention and wear resistance than 14C28N. The high hardness makes it all but impossible to sharpen and machine. 14C28N knives are better than D2 knives in corrosion resistance. Finally, in this 14c28n vs d2, we hope you get the right one. CPM-S90V, CPM-S110V, CPM-10V, and Bohler K390 each fit in this category. Its found on a large number of traditional-style folders. While higher hardness does lead to improved edge retention the bigger reason to have higher hardness is for resisting edge deformation. Hello LARRIN, do you have a Rough estimate on when ApexUltra (as well as more Magnacut) will become available? Old time 8670, 5160 (known to ignoramuses as 51shitty) and 52100 are excellent choices and arguably better choices than 80crv2. AR-RPM9 Let the job at hand be your guide. I was the heat treater, but after HT to only 58-59 hardness the blades went to the surface grinders for finishing and I remember them going into the packing boxes with mirror polished edges. Here, youll learn the different factors that go into each steel, ratings for a wide variety of steel alloys, and youll get some recommendations for types of knives different types of steel work well for. And a label: AEB-L. Rex 121 23.5% vanadium carbide, 4% molybdenum/tungsten carbide (M6C), Conventional Ingot vs Powder Metallurgy Carbide Structure. LC 200N is an elite performer, with high hardness, high toughness, and off-the-charts corrosion resistance. a burr might have developped on some of the steels and not on others, it might have ben reduced or even removed by the process. Thats a pretty large difference in two budget steels that are often compared to each other. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. Thanks to its very high hardness (64-66 HRc compared to the average of 58-62 HRc), ZDP-189 can be ground thinner and sharpened less often. The majority of knives target 63 Rc or below so this limitation of stainless steels does not always come into play but can be an important factor for certain knives targeting high performance and thin edges. For example, below is a video comparing a 1095 ESEE knife at 55-57 Rc and a MagnaCut knife at 62.5 Rc, both with the same edge angle. In other words, Rex 121 would be the most difficult to sharpen and 5160 and 8670 would be the easiest. Rowens heat treat on ESEE knives that use 1095 is exceptional; KA-BARs is less so. But unlike most high-end steels, SPY27 is an easily user-serviceable powder steel. But its lightyears ahead of the alternatives, specifically titanium-bladed knives. Thanks! Thank you. Though technically not a stainless steel at least 14% chromium, and D2 usually has 12% it's relatively corrosion-resistant. My other knives are a Real Steel E77 8cr14mov. I wont go into detail about those here. Im a layman trying to understand what makes the best steel for my use. Phone Hours (MST) Stainless steels usually top out around 64 Rc and may require careful heat treating to get there. These steels are the good old hard-working steels. Privacy Policy. I have a few examples below for steels that I have ranges of hardness tested for both toughness and edge retention. 14C28N vs. D2. There are a few aspects to your question, I think. A2 Knife Steel Air-hardened tool steel. Below, weve listed some of the attributes you might want out of your steel and given some examples in both the more expensive powder metallurgy steels and more affordable conventionally produced steels. The 25 dps sharpened knife saw almost no edge damage with 2 ft-lbs while a 15 dps edge saw a significant chip with only 0.3 ft-lbs and catastrophic chipping with 1.4 ft-lbs. Aluminum oxide is used in most common sharpening stones and it is softer than vanadium carbide, which makes sharpening high vanadium steels more difficult. AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. They have many similarities, including their high hardness, strength, and wear resistance. We did the research to help you find the best hunting knife for your needs and budget. I would love to see a Tungsten-Carbide blade (like Sandrin is using) and how it compares for Edge Retention, Toughness and Corrosion Resistance especially how it compares to s90v. The steel comes with increased wear and abrasion resistance properties. Micarta That is an air-hardening- high carbon, high chromium tool steel. Damascus or pattern welded steel is a result of combining two steels together. . Id like to quote some of your toughness, edge retention and corrosion resistance for balanced midfield steels, including yours, in some data tables. Its probably in between Vanadis 8 and 10V. Is there some way we might predict the relative "effective toughness" of different steels at different hardness and at different edge angles? 14C28N steel is the improved version of 13C26 with better rust resistance. 14% of Chromium: Increases corrosion resistance and wear resistance. Almost all of the knives in my EDC rotation are Spydercos, in exotic steels. Tanto Many steels are very similar to one another but go by different names from different manufacturers. The 14C28N, on the other hand, is tougher. rust resistance.Best of all most knives made from this steel can be had for well under $75.In my opinion Sandvik 14c28n is a better overall steel than that of Aus8,420hc,or ANY of the . With steels that have a small amount of carbide the size of the carbides can be kept small through processing (see the AEB-L micrograph earlier in the article). While quite soft, the metal cuts even when it seems dull because, at the microscopic level, it has a roughness that performs much like a serration. S110V has improved corrosion resistance at the cost of some toughness compared to S90V. It's more often pitted against the VG10 since both are widely popular high-carbon stainless steel grades. AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. It is an excellent steel that in the right hands has proven to produce high performing blades. Not every wood is soft pine. A few steels have been added since such as MagnaCut and M398. In general, higher carbon and higher vanadium steels have higher wear resistance and edge retention but lower toughness. As from features, for presenting d2 continue to grow in the knife industry, generally because of their working performance and reasonable price, a lot of superior low budget knives are building their reputation. Therefore, if your priority is a knife with the best toughness on the market, you can never go wrong with the varieties of 14C28N. Note that corrosion is detrimental for the cutting edge. We should be suspicious of anyone who is claiming very high edge retention with a steel at low hardness and a small amount of carbide. The reason is because sharpening and edge geometry will also greatly control properties. Only a skilled blacksmith can make Damascus steels, so they tend to be expensive. Is it similar but worse or better at one of the 3 things? This showed that XHP and ZDP-189 have significantly lower corrosion resistance than other stainless steels. Other factors that can be added in are corrosion resistance, hardness, and cost. Hes already done a three part series on cryogenic treatment: We looked at common steels used by popular knife brands to help you select the right material for your blade. AEB-L and 14C28N also have moderate edge retention though of course much lower than vanadium-alloyed powder metallurgy steels like S30V or M390. Carpenter produces this powder steel. Corrosion Resistance: D2 steel has a higher chromium content than 8Cr13MoV, which makes it better at resisting corrosion and wear. Ah ok that wasnt mentioned. I love reading through all the data youve gathered and making note of all the trends (Im a physical organic chemist). There are significant differences between them because 14C28N is stainless steel, while D2 steel is a semi-stainless tool steel. Elmax As with high alloy tool steels, the amount of vanadium can be a shortcut to predicting the general level of wear resistance and edge retention. 14C28N. . This particular steel grade allows for the highest attainable hardness without. In addition, According to Sandvik, 14C28N steel is easy to work on, reducing production costs and hence affordable knives. The steel is susceptible to overheating during hardening do not overheat. Thanks in advance, Simon, For hard use everyday cutting in a packing company, Everything from fome, cardboard, tape, thick plastics, And plastic wrap that is against metal. But among the steels youll find at Cabelas and the like, this is a pretty good choice. Fix-It Sticks Compact Ratcheting Multi-Tool Review, Toughness, Wear Resistance, Corrosion Resistance. That is professionaly popular such as the Japanese designation SKD11, Uddeholm Sverker 21, German designation 1.2379, Hitachi SLD and others. Note:There is a powder-metal version called CPM154 thats purer than the non-powder version, making it easier for knifemakers to grind. One argument I see consistently leveled against 8Cr13MoV compared to AUS-8 is that of the consistency of the composition. [Steel Knife Review], Best survival knife sword: 5160 steel Review, What is VG 10 pocket knife? Vancron would work well in a kitchen knife. Sign up to receive GearJunkie content direct to your inbox. Interesting. 1% saltwater will separate between other stainless steels. If you want to check the quality of my work, just search for The EDC Bible on Amazon. This is basically a retrofit of a very old steel, adding more carbon to the recipe of 420 (hence the HC for high carbon). What it is: 14C28N is a Sandvik stainless steel commonly used in razors and kitchen knives. 1060 High Alloy Tool Steels and High Speed Steels. Steels that are improperly heat treated have excess retained austenite which makes them extremely difficult to deburr. I mean the box cutter type, with the replaceable trapezoidal blades. For the steels that I rated I give them a single rating rather than a range based on different heat treatments that can be performed. Here, we will discuss edge retention, toughness, ease of sharpening, and corrosion resistance. Vanadium carbides are among the hardest that form in steel, and chromium carbides are in between iron carbide and vanadium carbide. Spyderco has produced several production knives with Maxamet, and the steel debuted on the ZT0888. The biggest factor for cost of knife steel is whether it is produced with conventional ingot technology or powder metallurgy. : knife a with a toughness of 5 and an angle of 20 degrees will perform as well in edge retention as knife b with a toughness of 3 and an angle of 15 degrees. 14C28N steel is known to offer among the best if not the best toughness in knife steels out there. [Complete Steel Guide], What is Vg-10 steel?- [Steel Knife Review], The Difference Between 440c steel vs d2: Compared guide, Is 8cr13mov Good Knife Steel [Complete Steel Guide], Amazon Best Sellers in Pocket Knives & Folding Knives. On the flip side D2 steel is much harder than other steels in this category such as 154CM or ATS-34 and as a result holds its edge a little better. thanks thats interesting. If you are looking for a high-end knife on a budget, the varieties of both steel will serve you. Check out theGiantMouse Vox/Anso ACE Iona Liner Lock Knife at $99, for example. Im looking forward to seeing if it does as well in full production. third and most important is what happened to the burr. Thanks Larrin, You do not expect the prices to be as low as those of low-end knives, but you will get high performance at affordable prices with either. you can easily buy a $500 knive made out of 14c28n, which has nothing in it besides cr and a trace of ni. Manage Settings Get for a complete guide about other steel; you can read 14c28n vs 8cr13mov reviews. Low Carbon steels like AEB-L wont hold up to wood cutting even though it can hit 64 hard, it just doesnt have enough Carbon. D2 steel also offers similar toughness levels as the 14c28n steel, so both aren't really prone to chipping with proper use. Any idea where it would be on the hardness and toughness scales? For instance, if a 35 edge in 1095 steel at 58 Rc provides appropriate toughness for planing hardwood, what edge angle in, say, AEB-L at 62 Rc might give us a comparable effective toughness? and get better and longer-lasting performance? You said wood is not a particularly abrasive material and in absolute terms that is very true. most knives are being made out of these and other mediocre steels like 14c28n, 420j2, 425m. Or is this an argument that tends to be rooted more in the presumption that Japanese steel > Chinese steel than any practical difference in reality? An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. I made most of my leather knives from O1v (O1 with .20V) that I hold at 1475 for 15 mins and quench in 120-130 F AAA oil and Kevin Cashen is where those parameters came from btw. We all have our preference, but overall, preference leans towards the pocket knife with a clip. I would suggest adding a second axis to the ratings charts that show the data values that the 0-10 ratings are based on (unnotched charpy impact energy, 1% saltwater , Total cards cut, etc.). I hope you will find value in the articles on this website. However, in our testing there is a reduction in toughness by using the high temperature range rather than the low temperature range, such as was found with CPM-CruWear (Z-Wear) or CPM-10V. Read our full Sobata 398 review here. Been here before? We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. There are still a few things I dont know but we have enough information to make educated guesses where data isnt available. Coarse-carbide tool steel grades. The highest edge retention steel was Rex 121 which was at 70 Rc in combination with lots of high hardness vanadium carbides. S90V In all of the cases above, properties are greatly controlled by carbides. Corrosion is not only cosmetic. You can read about my CATRA edge retention testing in this article. 14c28n is the most popular material for the knife: stainless steel and made by the Swedish company. Flashlights run the gamut of price and quality. For these reasons D2 steel is a good for smaller folding knives, but is not ideal for large fixed blades such as dedicated choppers and large survival knives. 14C28N knives are easier to sharpen than D2 knives. Because of the material difference, the blades differ in toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. 52100 This is an American-made powder steel produced by Crucible and developed specifically for knives with the aid of the knife guru Chris Reeve (maker of the vaunted Sebenza, among other gems). Theres a green triangle at about RC 60.5 and toughness over 40. You can read more about these factors in my book Knife Engineering. There is no such thing as a steel that is a 10 in both toughness and edge retention. Where the black-finished 1.4116 version has a simple, full flat grind, the D2 version has a compound flat grind that ends halfway up the blade's height. then you have zirconia and diamond coated blades. The knife Natrix with substantial copper handle is a deceptively hefty EDC. Youre right I had to check my spreadsheet. Nitro V is also significantly cheaper than many other steels with this level of performance. Steel is a combination of iron and carbon with other elements. Is there a reason SG2/R2 are not included in the lineup, despite being one of the most popular ones? Different companies can vary some between each other making the same product, while a single company is going to be more consistent. False treatment and geometry upheld by Made in USA is like buying 8Cr from China (except late A.G) My personal experience tops with Vanadis 4E, CPM-M4, RWL-34 and the likes. Poor availability may effectively increase cost of steel.
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